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Sandy at 65nation.com started in the inbox, newsletter only. Now his media presence has expanded to a full website. He monetizes the experience with Ezoic. This is a practical discussion as we walk through the steps and how it evolved his business model.
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0:04
Hey Sandy, how are you? I'm Gavin from
0:07
from ISO Partnerships and excited to
0:10
talk to Sandy, the owner of
0:12
65nation.com.
0:15
We actually met back at one of Matt
0:17
McGiri's summits, the the newsletter or
0:21
the I think it's the new media summit
0:23
today. Um, so we connected there a
0:24
couple years ago and and I think this is
0:27
an interesting conversation. I'm excited
0:29
about it because Sandy actually started
0:31
as a a newsletter first or a newsletter
0:34
only built the site or the the audience
0:38
mainly on Beehive uh and then transition
0:41
to the web from there which is a little
0:44
bit different than than I think what I'm
0:46
used to because a lot of publishers
0:48
start with the web and then they
0:49
transition to owning that audience
0:52
through news newsletter and that kind of
0:53
thing. Um, so doing it the reverse I
0:57
think will add a lot of insight for
0:59
people listening. But, um, Sandy, once
1:01
again, good to have you. And I thought
1:03
it'd be neat just to start off to to
1:04
hear a little bit about your business.
1:07
Um, how did it get started, the idea
1:10
behind it, how long it's been around,
1:12
and and what the content and and
1:14
publishing it is that you do.
1:17
>> Okay. So, uh, basically, a couple years
1:20
ago, I was going to be turning 65 and,
1:24
uh, realized that a couple things
1:27
happened at 65. One is, uh, you're
1:29
supposed to retire, uh, which I wasn't
1:32
ready to do. And I looked back on my
1:35
career and I've always had this in mind
1:37
that there's the this huge u demographic
1:41
of baby boomers, which I'm a part of.
1:43
And I wanted to somehow come up with
1:45
something that aggregates baby boomers
1:48
uh from two points of view. One as a
1:50
baby boomer giving advice and counsel
1:53
and creating a community and while
1:55
aggregating that creating a opportunity
1:59
of an audience for advertisers who want
2:00
to reach the baby ble audience which is
2:03
an extremely uh lucrative audience based
2:06
on uh the income and assets that they
2:08
have. And I'd say late 24,
2:13
uh, I started testing the idea, trying
2:15
different ESPs, different content, and
2:18
so forth. And, uh, just figured it out
2:22
by the end of the year and launched, uh,
2:23
January 1, 2025
2:27
with curated content, uh, and let that
2:30
run through the year, spending money on
2:34
Meta to build the audience. uh got it up
2:37
to about 100,000 subscribers and uh now
2:42
we're in 2026 and the goal's been
2:44
monetizing that audience which includes
2:47
uh advertising in the newsletter and
2:50
looking at opportunities uh with website
2:52
advertising which is how we met. And uh
2:56
and as uh as we transitioned into
3:00
monetizing the website uh that gave us
3:03
the opportunity to make our own content.
3:07
So it was very pivotal for us to be able
3:10
to monetize the website and send content
3:12
to a website to monetize that allowed me
3:15
to spend money to create content. So
3:18
essentially I'm justifying original
3:21
content by getting uh revenue from the
3:26
website. So as the articles land I'm
3:28
getting revenue from that and that
3:30
basically pays for the original content
3:33
about 50% of the cost and as our
3:36
audience grows I I assume that that will
3:38
cover 100% of our content cost.
3:41
>> Yeah. Great. Appreciate the background
3:43
and uh I'm curious to dive a little bit
3:45
more into that audience a little bit. It
3:47
sounds like you settled into a a nice
3:49
demographic there with the the 65 plus
3:52
the boomers. Uh you said it was about
3:55
100,000 subscribers to the newsletter.
3:58
Is that still current? And then what is
4:00
the actual web traffic look like per
4:02
month if you have that on hand?
4:03
>> Yeah, good good question. Because uh
4:06
after spending a lot of money in 25 uh
4:09
to get to the 100,000 uh you have to
4:12
spend a lot more to to keep it going. So
4:15
I had to uh experiment and look at a lot
4:18
of different uh ways to uh acquire
4:20
subscribers and there was some decline
4:24
and there was uh less uh acquisition due
4:27
to spending less money but I can proudly
4:30
say we're we're at 100,000 steady and uh
4:33
we're growing again uh at a steady rate.
4:37
Uh I expect to end this year uh probably
4:41
at 120,000 or so. Uh, and of that total,
4:47
um, I'd say totally we're probably at
4:51
150,000 total subscribers and active
4:53
subscribers around 100,000.
4:56
>> Okay.
4:56
>> Active subscribers being those that
4:58
clicked, you know, within the last 60 to
5:00
90 days.
5:01
>> Yeah, great. Um, so yeah, pretty solid
5:04
audience. And then what is your
5:06
monetization model around that audience?
5:09
Um because again I know you were a
5:10
newsletter first so you probably did a
5:12
lot of banners within the newsletter um
5:15
expanded to products perhaps and then
5:18
eventually the website. What are all the
5:20
components that make that up?
5:22
>> Yeah. So the main driver is advertising
5:25
and we uh pretty much focus on network
5:28
ads that we can get from the networks.
5:31
That's the lowhanging fruit that pays
5:33
the bills and uh from then you want to
5:36
add direct advertising to that layer and
5:39
that's been more difficult. You have to
5:41
spend a lot of money to go out and get
5:42
direct advertisers or a lot of time. Um
5:45
so we've been taking a slow approach to
5:48
that and adding a few direct advertisers
5:51
every month. So that'll build over time.
5:53
Uh the next revenue stream is product.
5:56
So we've created a bunch of digital
5:58
products. I've had a lot of fun building
5:59
those and creating those and we've had
6:02
some successes and misses, but I can say
6:04
that's added x thousands of dollars to
6:07
the revenue stream. Um, next on the list
6:10
is certainly the website and monetizing
6:13
the website. That's been a big boost and
6:17
uh you know going down the road I think
6:19
uh digital products and direct
6:23
advertisers will raise our revenue
6:25
stream significantly in the next year.
6:28
Okay, great. That was a good breakdown.
6:31
When when you said network ads at the
6:33
beginning, what were you referring to
6:35
there?
6:36
>> Those are um companies that they
6:38
aggregate the advertisers for you. So
6:40
that could be Beehive, Wellp Put um
6:44
Giddy Up and so forth where they're
6:46
they're aggravating the aggregating the
6:48
advertisers and we're just picking and
6:50
choosing which advertisers we want to
6:52
plug in.
6:53
>> Okay, got it.
6:56
Well, yeah. Now, now that you've been up
6:57
and running for a little bit, um I know
7:00
before EOIC you were a newsletter only
7:03
business. Was your goal to always be
7:07
just in the inbox or were you also ha
7:11
having bigger plans to expand to the
7:13
web? Um
7:15
>> well, I think when we first met, you
7:17
know, I was very anxious to be on the
7:18
web and using Beehive's web features at
7:21
that time was pretty minimal. They've
7:23
upgraded that significantly since, but I
7:26
still think it's limited to what you can
7:28
build on it and how you can monetize
7:30
what behive offers. Uh I'm sure it'll
7:33
grow and get better over time, but I
7:35
didn't want to wait another year before
7:37
making that transition. So, uh, the goal
7:40
has always been to have the web as part
7:42
of the, uh, the monetization and the,
7:46
uh, the access to the articles, putting
7:49
it in a in a in a great format that, uh,
7:52
that can come from making your own
7:54
articles instead of curating obviously
7:57
curating yourself sending it to other
7:59
people's websites.
8:00
>> Yeah. What what was that experience like
8:03
transitioning some of that content to
8:05
the web? Um because I as I understand it
8:07
you had to host your own domain. Uh you
8:10
built it on WordPress. Was that an easy
8:12
process?
8:14
>> So about that.
8:16
>> Yeah. So we uh in migrating from Beehive
8:20
the initial Beehive web format uh we
8:24
used WordPress and I built a simple
8:27
version myself. Um but to really build
8:30
it out and tie it in with content and
8:33
everything else I I needed a third
8:34
party. So, I found a third party um
8:38
company that basically builds and
8:41
maintains the website and the uh the
8:43
back end, and it's worked out really
8:45
well. Everything's been customized for
8:47
us. We pay uh minimal fees and I can
8:52
make changes on my own or they can make
8:54
them for me and it's worked out really
8:56
well.
8:57
>> Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So now you have the
9:00
web component, you have the the
9:02
newsletter, and basically your your goal
9:07
there is to get readers out of the inbox
9:10
and onto the website so that you can
9:14
monetize them with the display ads on
9:16
the site which are run by ISOIC. Um how
9:19
do you how do you actually do that
9:21
getting the the readers transition from
9:24
the inbox to the website?
9:26
>> Okay, so I mean it's pretty simple
9:27
process. Basically the the URLs the
9:31
links in the articles inside the
9:33
newsletter go directly to a web page and
9:37
that web page is then served up by our
9:40
uh our backend and then overlaid with
9:43
ISOIC advertising on it and ISOIC allows
9:47
us to decide which ads not which ad well
9:50
which ads from a sense of you know type
9:52
of ads but allows us to decide do we
9:54
want display ads do we want videos do we
9:56
want moving on the side moving on the
9:58
bottom. So, we're able to uh really
10:00
create the experience for the user with
10:03
the Zoic and the ads and how they
10:05
appear. So, we don't want to overwhelm
10:07
them with ads. We don't want to
10:09
underwhelm them either because we need
10:10
to monetize. So, you got to find that
10:12
that nice balance you to get that
10:16
balance which has been very helpful.
10:18
>> Okay. Yeah. And with that extension of
10:21
reach of your audience and also
10:23
monetization of the audience on the web,
10:26
has it gotten you to think about your
10:28
business model overall differently? Um,
10:30
or is it still Yeah. What has changed
10:32
there?
10:34
>> Well, it significantly changed our
10:36
business model because we went from
10:37
curating content to making our own
10:39
content. Mhm.
10:40
>> So by doing that we invested in uh
10:44
content creators to create the content
10:47
and uh we need to pay for that that uh
10:51
cost and the the web advertising having
10:54
them land on our website helps us cover
10:57
that cost. So that's been significant.
10:59
Uh also it allows us to uh really
11:03
customize the look and feel of how that
11:05
article is created and how it shows up
11:08
on the web. And that's that's integral
11:11
to a better looking website than than I
11:14
could create on my own in the beginning
11:16
and and using a third party and best
11:20
practices and I think we have a a pretty
11:22
good looking website.
11:23
>> Yeah.
11:25
>> Okay. You mentioned covering cost a
11:27
couple of times there. Um, with the
11:30
introduction of of ads on the web, can
11:32
you expand a little bit more on maybe
11:34
the costs that are being covered or the
11:35
percentage of revenue that those web ads
11:39
contribute to the overall business
11:40
model?
11:42
>> Um, without citing specific dollar
11:44
amounts or anything like that, I would
11:46
say that um, when we were curating our
11:50
content cost was zero.
11:53
So when we started creating our own
11:56
content, it cost x, you know, thousands
11:59
of dollars per month depending on how
12:01
many articles we publish and so forth.
12:03
And I really needed to find a way to pay
12:06
for that content. I didn't want to steal
12:08
from advertising revenue to pay for that
12:11
content because advertising revenue is
12:12
really our profit model. So, um, so it
12:16
became pretty much, uh, instinctive to,
12:19
uh, to send the articles to our website
12:22
and then have something like ISOIC help
12:24
us monetize that. And like I said in the
12:27
beginning, we're about halfway there. I
12:29
think we're we're covering about half
12:30
our costs. And I think with a larger
12:32
audience, we'll we'll cover most of the
12:34
cost.
12:36
>> Yeah. Yeah. So, it sounds like you're
12:37
excited to to scale that audience. um
12:40
you know more more people in the inbox,
12:43
more people on the web and should become
12:45
profitable.
12:46
>> Yep. And one thing I'll add is while we
12:49
were curating and we're sending it to
12:50
other people's website, the user
12:52
experience didn't change. They were
12:54
still overwhelmed and saw ads wherever
12:56
we sent them, you know, whether it was
12:58
to uh whatever website you want to come
13:00
up with, but they all monetize it. And
13:03
my theory was if they're monetizing it,
13:05
why can't I monetize it and and show
13:08
this the user the same experience? And I
13:09
think we've proven at least internally
13:12
that uh we're not turning away users by
13:14
showing ads on the on the website with
13:16
the articles.
13:17
>> Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Because because
13:19
before you were basically sending people
13:20
off to someone else's site. Now you keep
13:24
them on your your own
13:25
>> Yeah. We didn't we didn't change the
13:27
user Yeah. We didn't change the user
13:29
experience. We just took control of it
13:31
and monetized it.
13:32
Yeah, great. Um,
13:37
yeah, and and now that you are have made
13:39
that transition, how do you think the
13:41
experience has been with EOIC's tools
13:44
and the integration with your ESP, which
13:47
which is Beehive?
13:50
>> So, I will say uh it went really well.
13:53
um whatever hiccups we had uh you were
13:56
there and then I started using the MCP
13:59
that you guys have added to uh to make
14:02
any adjustments and so forth. So, I
14:03
would say the initial setup um was
14:07
fairly easy because you did most of it.
14:10
You know, Ioic definitely picked up the
14:12
ball to help us get started and then my
14:14
third party um backend company was very
14:19
easily comfortable with uh adding ISOIC
14:22
and making any changes that were
14:24
required. So I say from a technical
14:25
standpoint it was an easy process and
14:28
whatever hiccups we had could get
14:30
resolved very quickly and uh going
14:32
forward um I love the dashboard. It
14:35
gives me instant information that I
14:38
don't think I would get with without
14:39
ISOIC. uh I can see the clear picture
14:42
what what's happened in the week, what's
14:44
happened each day, what kind of traffic
14:46
I have, how much money I've made, and uh
14:48
really gives me a clear picture every
14:50
day of how things are going and and
14:52
highlights anything that might be a
14:54
problem.
14:55
>> Yeah, great. Glad that you're able to to
14:58
share that insight. Um, you know, I
15:01
think as we take a step back and look at
15:04
the landscape, I think there are other
15:08
operators that were in your shoes, you
15:10
know, that they were a newsletter or
15:13
they are a newsletter only. Um, they're
15:15
thinking about how they can expand their
15:17
business. What would you say or or would
15:20
you recommend to those folks about
15:23
expanding to the web and and using ads
15:26
as another monetization model on the
15:29
website?
15:30
>> I would say they definitely should be
15:32
exploring it if it's their own content,
15:34
original content, 100%. And if they want
15:38
to walk before they run, start with
15:39
Beehive with uh with what they have
15:42
because it's pretty easy for a oneperson
15:45
entity to get started. I'm not sure
15:47
there's advertising monetization
15:49
opportunities with Beehive currently. I
15:52
don't know the answer to that. Uh but
15:54
once they are comfortable with that,
15:56
they can send their articles and they
15:57
land on a website and they've got a
15:59
pretty much good-looking website, then
16:02
they could look at moving that to a
16:05
WordPress or another platform where they
16:06
can control more of it, add ads to it,
16:10
and and make changes to it that they may
16:11
not be able to in beehive.
16:14
>> Okay, perfect. And I guess going
16:18
forward,
16:19
where do you see your your web presence
16:22
evolving in the next year or two and how
16:25
does the the component of the ads on the
16:27
site fit into that?
16:29
So I would say that in the next year we
16:33
will focus uh more on SEO and driving uh
16:38
native traffic u organic traffic to the
16:42
website because that's all plus
16:44
opportunity for us bringing new people
16:45
to the website. So we haven't initiated
16:47
any programs to this point to drive any
16:50
organic traffic or paid traffic for that
16:53
matter. Um, I think it's something worth
16:55
experimenting with now that we have a
16:57
viable website. It's got great content
17:00
that changes every day and we have an
17:02
ability to monetize it with the uh
17:05
that's to me the next logical step is
17:07
what can we do to drive traffic to the
17:08
website which we haven't done up to this
17:11
point.
17:12
>> Okay. Yeah. Yeah, that's a good point
17:15
because now that you have a a web
17:17
presence, you can expand your traffic
17:19
sources outside of the inbox. It can be
17:24
organic, it can be social. There's a lot
17:26
of different different things to look at
17:27
there.
17:28
>> Yeah. And we we kind of sense that
17:31
there's interest in the content beyond
17:33
the inbox by uh looking at Facebook and
17:36
we post uh our newsletter every day on
17:39
on uh Facebook and I can see there's,
17:42
you know, hundreds of people reading it
17:44
on Facebook. Well, I got to assume that
17:46
they're been referred there or they got
17:48
onto Facebook and found us. um these
17:51
aren't the people that get our
17:53
newsletter reading it there. These are
17:54
people that are um finding us through
17:57
referrals and Facebook posts and things
17:59
like that. So, if it works on Facebook,
18:02
then it should certainly should work on
18:04
the website once we have the right tools
18:06
in place to drive people there.
18:08
>> Yeah, definitely another good strategy
18:11
to to layer on top. Well, uh yeah, this
18:14
has been an interesting conversation.
18:15
Uh, I'm trying to think if there's
18:17
anything that we missed or or anything
18:19
else that that you think operators
18:22
should know about
18:26
about making this transition if they
18:27
haven't yet.
18:29
>> I would say that uh, you know, once
18:32
you've built your newsletter to a point
18:33
where it's profitable or break even,
18:36
then you really need to explore the
18:38
website strategy and design and create a
18:41
website. And once you're able to drive
18:44
traffic to it from your newsletter, then
18:46
the next logical step is to monetize. I
18:49
looked at a lot of different tools out
18:51
there to monetize and I found ISOIC to
18:54
be the best tool for what I was looking
18:56
to do and uh it's definitely performed
18:59
to my expectations.
19:02
>> Great. Well, we appreciate your
19:06
your background. You've actually lived
19:08
it going from the inbox to the web. And
19:11
as I said, I think uh that journey will
19:14
bring a fresh perspective to a lot of
19:17
people who have sat in your shoes and
19:20
look forward to sharing this with folks.
19:22
Thanks for your time, Sandy, and we'll
19:24
talk with you soon.
19:26
>> Great. My pleasure. Thanks, Kevin. All
19:28
right. Bye.
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